Pop, the Question
S7-E55
“Shakespeare’s Impact on Pop Culture”
Episode Summary
William Shakespeare is a household name for good reason. His celebrated classics and literary themes have influenced generations of writers, performers, philosophers, and audiences, omnipresently evident in contemporary film, television, literature, and stage production. For a special live Pop, the Question podcast event, Host Dr. Melinda Lewis gathers together with an ensemble cast of Drexel University’s own characters—including members of Pennoni Honors College’s Shakespeare Read-Aloud community—to discuss the themes, adaptation, legacy, and impact of Shakespeare’s writing on popular culture.
Featured Guests Sophie Geagan (Alumna, Drexel University); Heather McCormack (Co-op Advisor, Steinbright Career Development Center); and Steven Weber, PhD (Vice Provost for Undergraduate Curriculum and Education; Professor, Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, College of Engineering)
Host and Producer Melinda Lewis, PhD (Director of Strategy)
Dean Paula Marantz Cohen, PhD
Executive Producer Erica Levi Zelinger (Director, Marketing & Media)
Producer Brian Kantorek (Associate Director, Marketing & Media)
Event Coordinator Rachel James (Program Manager, Undergraduate Research & Enrichment Programs)
Research and Script Melinda Lewis, PhD
Audio Engineering and Editing Brian Kantorek
Original Theme Music Brian Kantorek
Production Assistance Noah Levine
Social Media Outreach Piper Kelly
Graphic Design Esther Lee
Logo Design Michal Anderson
Additional Voiceover Malia Lewis
Recorded as a live event during the Week of Undergraduate Excellence (sponsored by Undergraduate Research & Enrichment Programs, Pennoni Honors College) on May 22, 2024 through virtual conferencing (Philadelphia, PA, USA). The views expressed in this podcast are not necessarily those of Drexel University or Pennoni Honors College.
To join the Shakespeare Read-Aloud group, visit drexel.edu/pennoni or contact pennoni@drexel.edu.
Copyright © 2024 Drexel University
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Paula Marantz Cohen 0:17
Welcome to Pop, the Question, a podcast that exists at the intersection of pop culture and academia. We sit down and talk about our favorite stuff through the lenses of what we do and who we are from Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University, Dr. Melinda Lewis here,
I'm your host.
Dr. Paula Marantz Cohen 2 0:39
I'm Paula Marantz Cohen, dean of the Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University. And I've been holding a Shakespeare read aloud every week for four years since 2020. Since COVID, and we have a very dedicated group have some 14 to 18 people that come every week, we've read about 15 to 18 plays, but we go through very slowly and discuss things sometimes line by line. It's four to five every Wednesday, and it is a very congenial group. We're bonded over Shakespeare. And I think we found everything in him everything but the kitchen sink, including the kitchen sink. Anyway, I'm going to turn this over to Melinda Lewis our Pop, the Question moderator questioner. She also happens to be Director of Strategy for the Pennoni Honors College and she's also a member of the Shakespeare read aloud, and she's going to deal with our guests who will introduce you and then start the conversation. Melinda. Hi,
Dr. Melinda Lewis 1:48
I'm Dr. Melinda Lewis, the host of Pop, the Question and we're going to talk about the ways in which Shakespeare continues to like wiggle his fingers and his way into popular culture. We continue to experience loads of adaptations of or comparisons to Shakespeare's work in all facets of popular culture. So thinking of clear adaptations, like 10 Things I Hate About You warm bodies, The Lion King, continuous theatrical revitalizations I'm don't know how many people are on Zendaya and Tom Holland tick tock as much as I am, but we've got the Romeo and Juliet with Tom Holland and Francesca amoa de rivers in London, and there's a production of Othello with Denzel Washington and Jake Gyllenhaal coming to Broadway. So I'm excited for Jake to get really fully into his villain era. We've all been waiting for it and it's here bubble boy Strikes Back, and there are even movies either about Shakespeare or the relevance of his work. At the Philadelphia spring Film Festival. They showed two movies in a very short lineup that underscored the transformative potential of Shakespeare in the movie Ghostlight, which is about a 50 year old man playing Romeo in a community production of Romeo and Juliet and moving through grief. And then another movie Sing saying about a theater program in SingSing maximum security that has like a transformative effect, and it's based off of the true story. So this real continued idea that like reading Shakespeare that has some sort of power and meaning to it in today's world, and I've even even gotten to palmas cow playing a young Shakespeare in a film directed by Chloe Zhao, which was announced earlier this year, so we're gonna see a real sexified Shakespeare running around shortly and more people getting really titillated by his place.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 3:33
Today, we're gonna be talking about William Shakespeare.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 3:37
I know a lot of you look forward to this, but as much as you look forward to root canal work, many of you've seen Shakespeare done very much like this. otitis, bring your friend Heather. But if any of you have seen Mr. Marlon Brando with Shakespeare can be different funds Romans come from you can also imagine maybe John Wayne is Macbeth clay wall as SR dagger, I'd say but for me.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 4:09
Shakespeare's work in life continues to be read, produced and adapted. And we're here with three members of the Shakespeare read aloud to really dig into the why. So I'm gonna start with introductions. I'm gonna allow you all to introduce herself. So hello, and who are you? Sophie, let's start with you. Hi,
Sophie Geagan 4:25
I'm Sophie. I am a first year medical student here at Drexel. But I went here for undergrad. So I'm a longtime person. I took a gap year so when this whole thing started in 2020, I was a junior in college, and I joined the Shakespeare group over COVID
Dr. Melinda Lewis 4:45
Awesome, Heather. Hello. Hi, I'm
Heather McCormack 6 4:48
Heather McCormack. I am a Steinbright Co Op advisor here at Drexel. So I joined Shakespeare because I thought it was a one time performance of The Tempest that I was going to get to watch that as well. not at all what it was, but I've been with them since I started a little bit about me. I studied in undergrad English literature and completely loved Shakespeare. So when I found this group to be like, Oh, I could go to class again, this is amazing. And I forgot how much I loved class. And that's exactly what this is Impala keeps us on track. And we go line by line, and it's really fruitful. And you don't have to read a paper at the end. So I took my love of English from that undergrad degree. And that was how I found social work. And so I am also a master's in social work. And between that love of literature and love of the human psyche, Shakespeare just lives completely in that space. And I love it.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 5:39
Awesome, Steve. Hello, who are you?
Steven Weber 7 5:43
Hello Melinda. My name is Steve Weber. And I am a professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering in the College of Engineering here at Drexel. I also work in the Provost Office and as I am the Vice Provost for Undergraduate curriculum and education, because my appointments in engineering I, of course, went to school undergrad for engineering, although I often am quick to say I was the reluctant engineer, I was the engineer because my parents wanted me to add a practical degree, but my heart was in English and Philosophy. And I was very aggrieved that I was not able to fit in a Shakespeare class as an undergraduate student. So when I learned about this group, I felt much like Heather just said that it was such a joy to get back into school, especially with no better of a host can we hope for then, of course, Dean Cohen, who keeps this group moving forward. It's such an enjoyable way. So it's just been an utter joy for me is this one of things I do for myself every week is I show up for Shakespeare just because it helps clear my mind. And I take inspiration from all the wonderful comments and conversations that we have, during our meetings, we
Dr. Melinda Lewis 6:52
will sometimes spend 40 minutes talking about a line of dialogue, which might feel really tedious. But those conversations are also so fruitful and exciting and full of like, well, what if or I thought about this, like 20 minutes ago, but I formulated a thought. My first question to you all as a panel is Do you remember what your first memory of Shakespeare was? And why it sticks with you? Heather? Why don't you take us off?
Heather McCormack 6 7:18
This brought back a fun childhood memory for me in the car with my father, we were listening to ultimate Broadway. And Maria from West Side Story was playing
Heather McCormack 7:28
Rio.
Heather McCormack 8 7:31
I just met a girl named Maria. And suddenly that name Will never be the same to me.
Heather McCormack 7:43
As a small child, I'm like, who's Maria? Who's singing? Why is he in love with her? Where do they live? What are they doing? And my father is like, Okay, well told me the story of West Side Story. I'm like, okay, okay. And he's like, Well, it's actually, you know, an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet Shakespeare. And I'm like, they can do that. And I was sold ever since then of like, they can make adaptations. They can take something from Venice, Italy, I'm not going to guess the year and put it in New York City completely change the setting and the clothing and the conflict, but make it the same. Yeah, it was music. And that's really beautiful. Because there's always music and Shakespeare that whenever we stumble across in our group, no one wants to sing it because that's awkward and weird. Are
Heather McCormack 8:26
we forced Sophie to do it? Yes. And then we personally,
Heather McCormack 8:28
as we know, Sophie can do it and do it well.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 8:35
And what was just
Dr. Melinda Lewis 8:48
Sophie, Steve, do you have any what like first memories for sure.
Sophie Geagan 8:52
So I went to a small elementary school. So when we did school plays, we were all pretty involved. And we had the most awesome library and she was the mother of one of the children in our class. And she decided ambitiously to adapt the Shakespeare play 12 night which for those of you don't know what it's about two twins who get separated in classic Shakespeare style. And one of them disguises herself as a man to find work. And there's this whole confusion between the fake man twin and the real man twin. But she, of course, had to make it shorter. For our little kid attention span, she had to change some of the language because some of its mature, some of it is words you don't know. But she kept words you don't know. And she kept it in iambic pentameter, which is like the Da da da da, da da da da rhythm. And I played Mariah, who was one of like, the fools in this comedy, and I fell in love with the play. I memorized that entire script that
Sophie Geagan 9:54
year. I'm sorry, the whole script or just your part, the whole
Sophie Geagan 9:58
script I was understanding Oh buddy and rehearsals I was a stand in. But yeah, that's my first memory of Shakespeare. I've loved it ever since I'm a huge fan of theater. So that kind of goes with Shakespeare.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 10:10
How old? Were you? Again? You said like elementary, but what I
Sophie Geagan 10:13
was 11 I was in sixth grade.
Heather McCormack 10:15
Wow. Bless that librarian. That's amazing. Yes,
Sophie Geagan 10:19
bless that librarian.
Heather McCormack 10:20
You just send her like a thank you note.
Sophie Geagan 10:23
Oh, and she made it a musical.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 10:29
That's. That's amazing. Steve, what about you? Well,
Steven Weber 10:30
so my first Shakespeare experience was not the one I want to talk about those probably, I think reading Romeo and Juliet in middle school. But the one that was much more formative for me was reading Hamlet in my senior year, English course. And I had a wonderful English teacher in high school, and we had all this great stuff that sticks with me to this day, but I just became obsessed with Hamlet, in my senior year of high school, I like I would read it and I would reread it and reread it and I'd get the tapes in the library because they're these old technology, it was to have plastic, I would listen to the tapes, and then I would read it and watch the all the adaptations I could find. And it just kind of seeped into my subconscious. So it just became something very rich and ennobling in a sense, and it would help me kind of frame the bill snatches of the play would come to mind in different situations, thinking about applications, of course, you know, The Lion King, etc. But I have to say my favorite Hamlet adaptation is strange brew from 1983. Between Bob and Doug McKenzie, who are characters on Saturday Night Live to beer swilling Canadians. They're put into this crazy situation that mirrors the plot of Hamlet, fear,
Steven Weber 11:40
an unsuspecting ours has become the innocent pawn of a diabolical genius at his command, space age super lasers that can incinerate an entire metropolis. An army of deadly hockey warriors at his fingertips, lots of beer, just one not test. Then we are ready for the world.
Unknown Speaker 12:06
What full day's standard his way? Good day, I'm Barbara Kitsis. My brother Doug, I was going welcome to.
Steven Weber 12:17
So that would be my vote for kind of a fun at a patient of Hamlet, but always but the most important Shakespeare experience. So ever since I've had an interest in trying to read more. I've always enjoyed it.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 12:29
Do you remember what it was about Hamlet in particular, that you were like, This is it for me.
Steven Weber 12:33
It was the language it was it wasn't the plot, like I had no, like, Father issues or anything. It was, it wasn't like it resonated because of the themes. It was my first time getting over the barrier of the language, which I think takes some time and some effort and willingness. Partly it was rewarding because it was difficult. I took some pride in that, you know, I can understand this. But then it was rewarding because of the richness and universality of Shakespeare's language.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 12:59
I feel like I'm kind of in the middle of these stories, because the thing that I remember the most is my parents having a VHS copy of Much Ado About Nothing. And me watching that over and over and over again. And this must have been in the early 90s. So I was about 10 or 11. Which one
Heather McCormack 13:18
Melinda Kenneth Bronner, the best one. Yeah, the only one
Speaker 10 13:23
is it possible to stay in should die while she has such meat food to feed it as Senor Benedick. Courtesy itself must convert to disdain if you come in her presence. Maybe it's courtesy of turncoat. But it is certain I am loved of all ladies only you accepted and I would I could find in my heart that I had not a hard heart for truly I love none a dear happiness to women, they would have been troubled with a pernicious suitor. I thank God and my cold blood I am of your humor for that I had rather hear my dog bark at a crow than a man's where he loves me a God keep your leadership still in that mind. So some gentleman or other shall escape a predestined at scratched face. Scratching could not make it worse and for such a face as yours where you are a rare parents teacher, a bird of my tongue is better than a beast of yours. I would my horse at the speed of your tongue.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 14:16
God's name I am done with this one I thought about like how incredible it was that as like a 10 or 11 year old I didn't really understand the nuance of the language. But I could definitely understand the feelings and the ideas of what was happening. I could also enjoy Keanu Reeves bizarro performance of shakes shirt that I just really love. Today like oh no brother. Don't do that.
Speaker 11 14:43
I cannot hide what I am. I must be sad when I have caused and smile at No Man's chests. Eat when I have stomach. Wait for No Man's leisure. Sleep when I am drowsy and tender no man As a business laugh, and I am Mary, and Claude, oh man in his humor.
Dr. Melinda Lewis15:06
And then of course, I came of age during a time where everybody was making an adaptation of Shakespeare where it was just like we got teens, Shakespeare is perfect for that. So Romeo and Juliet 10 Things I Hate About You. And I think for my favorite, not necessarily the one that I really want to continue to watch, but I think I rewatched Oh, fairly recently. And that's a really great adaptation in terms of like, what a horrific concoction of feelings that it produces. And like the power dynamics of an elite high school, Josh Hartnett, who is just a really great villain, being a really tremendous Thiago. And that really sticking out to me is not only just a really faithful adaptation, but one that really struck me in an emotional level.
Unknown Speaker 15:53
Jason
Unknown Speaker 15:55
asked him asking, why did this ask you to ask me nothing? I did what I did. And that's all you need to know.
Unknown Speaker 16:09
We're allowed I say nothing.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 16:16
In terms of how you evaluate adaptations, what stands out to you as like, this is a great adaptation. And what makes it good to you?
Steven Weber 16:25
I've been on a kick where I've been obsessed with Macbeth the last few years. Yeah, I got to see it live actually got to deal with my daughter, which was really nice when to see it at the quintessence Theatre in Mount Airy. And then actually, before that, I watched Joel Cohen's version of the tragedy of Macbeth. And I also watched the one from 2015 starring Michael Fassbender. So all three were great, because they're all true to the text. But they were all three so distinct that unless they had the text there to ground them together, they were so utterly creative and distinct in how they did everything else, besides the text from the acting to the scenery, of course, how they did the witches. I don't know if it's my favorite, but it's just been really neat to see how creative the different adaptations can be while still having the same text. Yeah,
Dr. Melinda Lewis 17:16
I would throw Scotland pa in there. I don't know if you've seen that one. That is, I believe it's I think, from the early 1000s, or 90s, but it's a contemporary version of Macbeth and like the middle of nowhere.
Unknown Speaker 17:29
Yeah, Malcolm, you
Unknown Speaker 17:30
will not talk to me like,
Unknown Speaker 17:31
you're actually listening to me. What does that supposed to mean?
Speaker 12 17:35
You don't listen to either one of us? Did you know that Donald doesn't even like football. He only plays because you make. Of course he likes football. All young men like football.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 17:45
But thinking about like the form of like, here's this story that we see over and over and over again. And yet it looks so different or experience it differently, depending on what adaptation or who's doing it like Denzel is performance was like, I know I've seen this play, but I guess I haven't. I guess I've never looked at this before in my life.
Speaker 13 18:05
By the pricking of my thumbs. Something Wicked This Way Comes.
Unknown Speaker 18:15
You see good black and midnight X.
Unknown Speaker 18:18
What if you do
Speaker 13 18:20
a deed? Without name? Icon Do you
Speaker 14 18:26
buy that? Would you prefer to come to know what answer me even till destruction? Second? Answer me do what I asked you.
Unknown Speaker 18:33
speak their mind.
Speaker 13 18:37
Save the struggle hearing from our mouths or from our masters.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 18:44
Let me see, Heather.
Heather McCormack 18:45
Yeah. Well, you already talked about much ado about nothing but Catherine and Emma Thompson is I think my favorite Shakespeare adaptation on film. So I won't talk about that. I'm gonna talk about she's the man.
Sophie Geagan 18:57
I mean, this is why I love you.
Heather McCormack 19:00
So she's the man for those who don't know is a 2006 masterpiece starring Amanda Bynes as Viola and 12th night. It's got a lot of early arts feminist power. They won't let the girls play on the boys soccer team. And so she sneaks in and pretends to be a boy
Unknown Speaker 19:18
did why? I don't know I
Speaker 15 19:24
kinda was thinking I might ask if she wanted to grab dances Oreos tonight. You were really? I'd love to.
Speaker 16 19:34
I'd love to give her your phone number Hastings. Yeah, yeah, coach.
Heather McCormack 19:39
So she's the man is so funny. And Shakespeare people don't always get how funny it is. And sometimes we have to sit for a long time with that very nuanced sexual innuendo. That does not make sense anymore, because we don't know what those words mean. But when we finally got there, it is really funny or I love when we just chuckled to ourselves. Just because we're like, we don't really know what that means, but it sounds really sexual. And it is. And so she's the man just has delightful chemistry between everybody. And I did just finish bridgerton. So I'm on a chemistry kick after chemistry that is gold, if you can figure out and I don't just mean love chemistry, I mean, a father and son dynamic, a parent, a child, Simba and Mufasa work because they work and you care that he's dead because he was a good dad.
Heather McCormack 20:41
And then honestly, when you see it, live chemistry with the audience, I love to see Shakespeare live and have everybody cackling even though you don't really know what they're talking about. So yeah, I think it comes down to the actors because Shakespeare gave you this beautiful thing to do with what you will. And Steve, I don't like the death, I find it very dull. And I wonder if I've not seen very good adaptations, or when I sat there as a 16 year old and sophomore year of high school. You know, that wasn't a ton of fun. Just so
Steven Weber 21:12
it's clear, because it's a story about aspirations for power and avarice. I don't have that. It's more than allegedly, allegedly, you shouldn't believe me, but
Dr. Melinda Lewis 21:26
Sophie, go for it.
Sophie Geagan 21:28
Well, I mean, Heather kind of stole mine. It's my favorite play. But another one that introduced me to the idea of Shakespeare and musicals and like reinforced what I learned through 12th Night was when I was in middle school, and we did Romeo and Juliet and maybe other people who did Romeo and Juliet in Middle School found it boring or sappy, or why did they die? Or why's Juliet 12. But my teacher taught it alongside West Side Story. And it was phenomenal. And I loved that. And West Side Story is another one of my favorite adaptations.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 22:03
I remember thanks to something that you said it kicked back and another thing that I was thinking about when Heather spoke and I think one of the things that stands out to me is like the out damned spot scene, which I've seen so many times. Like I think Francis McDormand does it incredibly well. And the tragedy of Macbeth in a way that I don't remember. out, I said, it's murky, who would have thought the old man who have had so much blood and usually I equate it with like a whole damn smart like so become so campy and kind of ridiculous. And to your point, Sophie, Romeo and Juliet can also feel overly dramatic or like sappy or people get this idea of I don't want to say it's camp, but it's so overdone. So I guess like, what can make something feel fresh? I don't even forget that she's the man is 12th night. So what makes these adaptations? Or what can help something that feels so stale feel so exciting or fresh or new? Despite watching 90 versions of Hamlet, Macbeth, 12th night, Romeo and Juliet?
Heather McCormack 23:14
Well, first of all, sometimes we do need camp. Yeah, I firmly believe that. But I think it's how the actors make the speech relatable, whether it is can't be, or it is tragedy, that they make the funny things funny. And they make the feelings, the same raw emotions that we feel today. And that's really the case with any play, but especially with Shakespeare adaptations, and especially when they do keep the script, but put it in a modern thing. For example, there was a much ado about nothing on a cruise ship, there wasn't as you like it, where they're just like very fancy people and fancy clothes, but modern. But as long as they keep the same feeling, that's what counts. I feel
Steven Weber 23:54
like the Shakespearean actors who are good, are able to take difficult text and almost invisibly, emphasize the parts of it that are crucial to your understanding, and then de emphasize the parts that obfuscate the interpretation. I don't know how they do that, because I'm not an accurate, but I often feel like the the barrier to understanding is much, much lower when you're listening to a competent actor read than if I tried to remind myself that's the Lord when we have the discussions, of course in our group, but I just think that that's one of the things that makes a good adaptation.
Speaker 3 24:27
Yeah, to go back to Much Ado About Nothing, I understand enough to get it. I might not understand the nuances but I know what's going on in this play. Again, I don't know how you write that. I don't know how you perform it. It's the magic of art, I guess.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 24:41
So I'm thinking about I know so many good ones that I'm trying to think like, well, let's put like didn't hit the mark and the 2014 Romeo and Juliet. I got super excited when it came out it set in time period. And that was pretty rare, like no adaptation. This is legit. They seemed about the right age. They were both really hot. Unlike this is gonna be great. It was so boring. It just did. I felt nothing and looking back on it I've ever rewatched it. But I'm wondering, is that a side effect of studio notes? Like you're doing a good job? And they're like, no, no, it needs to be with this and it needs to have this need where this needs to be in this setting. That's kind of why theatrical productions I think almost always hit the mark that there's so there's just less oversight, whereas when you're a Hollywood film, it's got to carry the audience but then what makes baz Norman's Romeo and Juliet in my opinion so so good one of the things is Leonardo DiCaprio is incredibly compelling and whatever he does is going to be really well done. How is he like that? I don't know. He's a really great actor.
Speaker 15 25:43
My lips to blushing pilgrims right stand to smooth that rough Dutch
Unknown Speaker 25:51
good pilgrim you to run your hand too much.
Speaker 18 25:54
Let's mannerly devotion chosen is for saints of parents that pilgrims hands do touch in palm to palm is holy Palmer's kiss of
Speaker 15 26:05
not saints lips and holy Palmer's do I have held
Speaker 18 26:09
the grown lips that they must use in prayer. or have
Speaker 15 26:13
them dear Saint lips do with hands do they pray grant though less faith turn to despair.
Speaker 18 26:19
saints do not move your grant for prayer sake.
Speaker 15 26:23
Then move not all my prayers affect it.
Heather McCormack 26:30
I just think it comes down to the chemistry of the actor and how they can play on each other and play with the audience. And it doesn't have to be I love when it's the authentic language. But it doesn't have to be that but then if you're going to rewrite Shakespeare probably should be pretty good. And you probably should have a pretty good writer.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 26:46
Yeah, I also think to go back to your point with Romeo and Juliet, which I could do a whole discussion on because that was a very formative film for 12 year old Melinda for a variety of reasons, which we don't need to go into today. But um, it's also the use of cinematic language as opposed to theater language. Reason I think Bosler men's works is that there's an iconic scene where Tybalt played by John Leguizamo brilliantly gets on his knees rips off his shirt shows like The holster with guns and you know, it's gonna get real which like, Sure, you could stage that, but the fact that it's like close up, and you have to reckon with the threat of violence in that way, just amps it up in a particular way. And I feel like with the adaptation of 2014, which, frankly, I don't remember, it probably was just like a regular ol like, here's how we do it. And so there's nothing that's to your point, really innovating, how we're interpreting it or making to Sophie's point, something a little bit more relevant to what we're doing, even in terms of the language.
Unknown Speaker 28:12
Hey, it's
Unknown Speaker 28:13
your mom,
Unknown Speaker 28:14
I have a question about that
Speaker 19 28:15
podcast you do. Are you on the Instagram or the Twitter or the Facebook? You're like, oh, I have an idea for a podcast. How do I get in touch with you?
Unknown Speaker 28:25
Love you by
Unknown Speaker 28:27
step mom. Yeah.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 28:28
So you can find us on all those things actually, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, just go to pop quest pod on any one of those and follow. If you want to send us ideas, you can either go over to our website and leave us a message at pop to podcast. Or you can get us directly at pop q@drexel.edu You can actually find us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, I can help set it up when I get home. But then you have to promise me to rate and review all right, love you bye.
Dr. Melinda Lewis 29:00
I wrote some things down in terms of what people were saying made their adaptations good and I have chemistry being able to reimagine how things can look despite having the center of text as much as there's reimagining maintaining sort of fidelity relatability and modernization. Am I missing anything in terms of what helps make a solid adaptation any other key words there that you would add turn it into a Broadway show? Specifically,
Sophie Geagan 29:29
more musicals
Heather McCormack 29:30
or musicals? Oh, all ways. I said don't cut stuff. I love the Kenneth. Brenna Hamlet. It's so long. Yeah. And it's so long because they really don't cut anything and Hamlet's really long. And so if you're gonna cut stuff, I just got to be really thoughtful because Shakespeare wrote that scene for a reason. I think we cut the rude mechanicals out of a lot of things because we don't find them as funny anymore. There are ways to make them funny. Absolutely. You But
Dr. Melinda Lewis 30:00
when you think they're not, and then they always come back some way. I feel like there are a lot of conversations and Shakespeare where we're like, why is this scene here? But then it's like, oh, well, we need this trajectory to move into this scene and kind of set up these characters. But if you're a Hollywood producer, that's like, let's just keep movin and shakin, where's the kissing? Where's the violence? Let's go no talking, then I could see where you would have to really defend those edits to like, make it happen. Do you have do you have anything that you would add to this like list of don'ts? And be careful?
Steven Weber
No, I'm just gonna for the sake of keeping the finishing, I'm just going to gently disagree with Heather. I am pro cuts. I'm pro editing. It's done, of course, as she said thoughtfully and carefully good justification. But I often feel like, as I'm reading Shakespeare plays, there are scenes where I play really well what is really doing here, this doesn't seem necessary. And I'm not the one to be the arbiter of that. I'm just saying that's my impression as a reader, so I can imagine that would be part of the creative license of the director. And I noticed that when I watched these three different versions of Macbeth, and the one of the quintessence theater was the complete version that included every single line I think it's silly
Speaker 4
theater week, and something wicked this way comes from a local company performing a Shakespeare classic, with a twist spoke modern and Elisabetha.
Speaker 5
Well, it Quintessence. We bring the classics to today. And for this particular production, we're doing an all male production of Shakespeare's Macbeth. And as people know, Shakespeare's in Shakespeare's day it was performed by all men.
Stephen Weber
But the other two, the Coen version, and crossbenchers version did liberally edit. And I think even tribute lines differently, perhaps, I thought that was good. I think that's part of the reimagining. And I don't view that as non canon, which maybe Heather when this all came up, because I'm thinking about that Romeo and Juliet that I complained. I really didn't like it. They cut stuff. They cut stuff between Romeo and Juliet, they only have so many scenes. So yes, I guess at the end of the day, I am pro editing, it's just gotta be thoughtful, and it can't just be whatever.
Dr. Melinda Lewis
Let's just cut it. Fair enough. Yes, agreed, edit for time, as opposed to meaning maybe like, if it's just to get from point A to point B? No. But if you're doing things like Joel Cohen is doing and thinking about reimagining space, because I think in that one, there are not three witches, right? It's just Katherine Parkins. She's one of my favorite aspects of that production. I find her performance as the three witches to me. Really, really just remarkable and trancing, a drum drum
Speaker 6
in a civil did a sale, a ladder rack without a tail? I'll do I'll do and I'll do
Dr. Melinda Lewis
in terms of thinking about the whys. Shakespeare has been dead a long time he wrote these plays, I don't know if I don't want to spoil that. He's been dead a long time. But his plays have remained and have been translated have been performed globally. I don't think that there's an era where it was like, Ooh, Shakespeare, let's re discover he's just he's always there. And I would like to know more about what you think maintains that relevancy like, what is it that people keep finding in his work?
Heather McCormack
He does not pigeonhole himself at all. And so whatever your flavor is, Shakespeare has written it for you to be both out of this world and relatable to be absolutely tragic and hilarious to be so beautifully written that I'm so angry, any part gets cut, and I love a strong female complex woman and he does right a lot of those
Speaker 6
come to my woman's breasts. And take my milk for gall. You murdering ministers.
Heather McCormack
Oh, my one other thing is what he does with gender. I took a transgender literature class and reading to Well tonight through that lens and just thinking about Shakespeare through that lens was radical, I took my husband to his first Shakespeare play, and it was King Lear. And a lot of the characters were gender bent. And it was just, you can always do that. And that was a part of the history of the time, but also that practice has followed through to this day for sure. And there's just always some new nuance and nugget of truth you can delve into for the different plays, we out why wouldn't you want to study Shakespeare?
Steven Weber
I agree with that. He says, nicely, I focus on the language, the language is always artful. It's often universal, and its applicability to the human condition. And finally, somehow, what's often most surprising to me, it's so economical, and that he acts in so many layers of depth of meaning into a few words. And he does not rely on hackneyed turns of phrase, it's the metaphors and the coloring, it's endlessly Food for Thought, which is what our group talks about. And so I always enjoy that part of the reading. And the discussion,
Sophie Geagan
what I would add is, number one, not all of his plots were his and that's not to say that he's not amazing, but it's to say that they are already timeless, and he chose intentionally very timeless things. And he made them even more timeless by making them relatable to everybody. And when I say relatable, I I actually don't mean necessarily across time periods, but across class, he wrote about very high class people and very low class people. I'm surprised the more that I read it, and going from a child to an adult reading it to see how many like euphemisms and inappropriate things and kind of low down jokes are in there, and how there is comedy even in the tragedy. But then there are these really high up emotional moments. And I think giving something for everybody and doing it as eloquently as he does is part of the reason and because these are old stories, they're very malleable. And we've done a lot with them. Yeah,
Dr. Melinda Lewis
you touched upon the thing that I was thinking that there is an anchoring in the language. But there are so many ways to interpret a line or a dynamic or who has power in this situation, who does it. And I think to your point, Sophie, because he's already working with plaques that have already been done. There's an implicit encouragement to be like, do whatever you want with this, the power really is in who is interpreting it at any given time, as opposed to like, I am the author. And this is what I mean. And this is how the language should be read. I feel like so many of the things that we talked about in Shakespeare have been like I'm interpreting it this way. Well, I'm interpreting it this way. And I'm seeing it this way. And I think that that makes it so lively and fun to be able to find these new interpretations or to find new books to crawl into that, I think makes it fun continuously. Sophie Yeah.
Sophie Geagan
My other thing, and this is random, from a theatre perspective, they're very little stage directions. Here. And I feel like that is one of the reasons why it is so malleable, is he just leaves a lot of room for creativity with the other guys do the fights, you know, let the Land Pirates fight.
Speaker 9
above that. Yeah. More of a Shakespearean.
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Now you see, think of that. And then next time, well, not today. But next time, we'll have a little talk about Hamlet, because I actually think, really, that's kind of the basis, okay.
Speaker
Is like a hamlet and an acre. And an Edgar. Yeah.
Unknown
So I don't know the difference? No.
Speaker
Well, they're both angry, conflicted young men. Okay. And that's what you are in this.
Dr. Melinda Lewis
This might be the finalist question. Although if anybody in the audience has a sneaky one that they want to throw in at the end, I will consider it because I am benevolent. Why are you all revisiting these texts? We've kind of touched upon it in some degrees and in terms of the pleasure that we have in the group, but if somebody were like, Why are you in the Shakespeare group? Once a week? Like what are you getting out of this? How would you like answer the why they're like, what is it that you enjoy about doing these read alouds and spending time with these texts?
Steven Weber
Right, I first stepped onto a college campus the freshman year that I went to Marquette University in Milwaukee, I had this very strongly felt important moment in my life where I just realized this is where I want to be. I didn't know anything about higher education or being a professor or anything I just knew. I loved the idea of a place where you focused on learning, but I didn't know how he was going to do it and know what it entailed. But I knew somehow I was gonna be on the other side of that desk, or I was gonna stay a student forever. So the Shakespeare group is for me personally, the best exam Apple, of what I feel the university is in its best and purest form, which is people coming together to discuss and work on shared issues, conversations problems, what are the context is gonna be scientific or not it can be arts or not doing so for it as an end in itself. There's no grade, there's nothing out of it that we get out of this other than enjoying each other's company, each other's insights and working through beautiful texts, and making it sounds so dramatic, but it's really just resonates with me. For that reason, something I've always enjoyed is that intimate, seminar style conversational class, which is why I guess I volunteer to teach in the Honors College because I always enjoyed those classes when I was a student. Yeah,
Heather McCormack
same Steve, I stepped on campus when I was a freshman and thought I'd never want to leave here. And I'm grateful to be here. Again, Melinda, you kind of touched on this of like, being in the group is just like an echo of what's happening already in your brain. And so for me, it is absolutely a self care piece. But it's also just a practice in mindfulness, you live nowhere, but on that page, and in that Zoom meeting with all of these beloved faces, and just nothing else really exists. And your biggest problem is Troilus and Cressida probably should have slept together. And that's a big problem. So it's a really beautiful thing in a very stressful, anxiety filled world, just to live in the world of Shakespeare. And so often we do talk about political, current events, economic issues, for sure. And that's the beauty thing of Shakespeare is that it applies to all walks of life and all times. But I like how my brain feels when I'm in the group. And that's what keeps bringing me back. I do tell everyone I talked to like, do you want to come to Shakespeare, and no one has taken me up on it. And they're always like, that's such a nice thing for you. Like, I don't know how to sell you on it, because it's a nice thing for everybody. Yeah.
Dr. Melinda Lewis
Sophie do you have anything that you'd like to add, I'm
Sophie Geagan
a theater kid, I came to this Shakespeare because I didn't want to stop being creative. When I became a science major, I was having a hard time finding opportunities to be creative and COVID. And as this group has morphed, I've represented my generation is the baby of the group. And I've watched our discussions go from a scene down to a lot. But I come back for Shakespeare, because his plays are irresistible. And I come back for the group because they're incredible, incredible people. And I sit here and I get insights from Dean Cohen, who's written books about Shakespeare, we have somebody with a law degree we have people in social work like Heather, we spent so many ages and so many experiences. And isn't that exactly what she experienced? For it's for people of all walks of life? To connect?
Dr. Melinda Lewis
We do have one question in the chat. That's kind of related to what you said, Sophie? One, how do you convince or talk about Shakespeare with appreciation to those who don't? And is it a role of ours to bring people into the Shakespeare appreciation? Like are we advocates? Or is it just do we leave it at good for me, not for you? What is our obligation to the bard to bring people in to our cult?
Heather McCormack
So we were just reading Measure for Measure, and which is not a very popular Shakespeare play? And after reading it, I kind of get why. But I was like telling someone the plot, and they're like, is this a TV show? You're watching? Is this a movie you saw? Like, what are you talking about? I'm like, No, this is for Shakespeare like that Shakespeare like, Yeah, it's cool and weird. And like people have sex in the dark with each other, and they don't know who the other person is. And isn't that funny and weird. And so if I was talking to someone who was like, oh, not for me, don't care don't like it? Absolutely not. I would have to ask some follow up questions about who hurt you in terms of Shakespeare. And maybe you're wrong. And maybe you haven't seen the right adaptation? And maybe you're not a comedy person, you're a tragedy person. So I don't know, do I need to go sing the praises of Shakespeare throughout the world? I do think he's got quite a bit of following and I don't think that's where my energy needs to go. But what I'd like my energy to go to is for my loved ones and friends and acquaintances, what stories do you want to consume? What stories do you consume? And I want to hear about them, but also you're gonna have to let me talk about Measure for Measure and the bed switching scenes.
Dr. Melinda Lewis
Hey, it's fair. Steve, Sophie?
Sophie Geagan
Well, I'm 1,000% on board with Heather about there's something for everybody. There is a play they will like and there is a way that they will like it. You just have to know your audience and get them to go see a play. And I tell this story, because this year, my family has had a subscription or like whatever you call it like passes to The lantern Theatre, which is by the way, absolutely wonderful. And when they have Shakespeare plays, I'm excited for like weeks for them, but they have other plays, and one of them was called tar tooth. And I'd never heard of tartufo in my life. And when I read this summary of tartufo, it almost sounded very boring. But they put on this play, and me and my family and my little sister who, by the way, I could never get into Shakespeare. And I mean, this is Bing verse, which, yeah, she was laughing so hard. All you need is the right people to show it to you in a way that you can understand. I don't
Speaker 10 15:36
pretend to be a saint, nor have I all the wisdom of beings. There's just one insight I dare to claim. I know that true and false are not the same.
Sophie Geagan
So get them to go see a play or get them to go watch an adaptation that makes sense on their level.
Unknown Speaker 15:56
Yeah. And then they can decide,
Dr. Melinda Lewis
I think it's, it's not so much about Shakespeare, although I'm glad that's the focal point. It's the community and communication, which I think is really unique. You know, I'll lead very busy lives. And we all have family and friends with whom we interact. But rarely do I think you get to spend an hour and focus as a group with shared interest in discovery and sharing of opinions and impressions. At least I don't have that outside of this regularly in my life, and I would hazard I'm not alone in that. So it's just a really unique and positive form of communication interaction. That's that's what's so precious.
Dr. Melinda Lewis
Well, thank you all so much for joining. I'm gonna see you in about 29 minutes for Shakespeare read aloud, but I appreciate this extra time to pick your brains. Thanks to Rachel James for asking us to do this as part of week of undergraduate excellence, and to undergraduate research and enrichment programs for putting this whole week of celebration together. Really appreciate it. If you're looking for more low stakes conversations about popular culture, we can be found at Apple, Spotify and SoundCloud. You can also follow us on Instagram at pop quest pod comm to Shakespeare read aloud some time get into it. You can do voices if you want. Nobody's gonna judge you or make fun of you will appreciate it. So thank you take care, and I don't know go read a play seriously.
Sophie Geagan
It's so much fun. It's so much fun.
Speaker 11
Pop, the Question was researched and hosted by Dr. Melinda Lewis. Our theme music and episodes are produced by Brian Kantorek with additional audio production by Noah Levine. All of this was done under the directorship of Erica Levi Zelinger, the deanship of Dr. Paula Marantz Cohen, and the Pennoni Honors College at Drexel University.
Speaker
Are we talking about when he talks about practice? We're talking about practice.